Tune in to Emily Owen, an inspiring Associate Hydrologist, as she shares her incredible journey in the engineering world. 

In this episode, Ruth meets Chelvi Nava, renowned engineer and writer, and an advocate for encouraging young people into the world of engineering.

In this episode, Ruth talks to Katherine Parsons of ISS, who is not only a highly successful engineer, but she's an award-winning D&I speaker and a champion of diversity.
 

Danny Clarke is the Commercial Director of the National Federation of Builders (NFB) and he speaks with our very own Ruth Parker about how to inspire change and the importance of Equity, Diversity & Inclusivity (EDI or ED&I) in the workplace and, specifically, in the construction industry.

Danny is a Diversity Champion within the construction industry and his knowledge is insightful and unique.

What Does It Mean to Be a Diversity Champion?

To be a champion means more than just ambassadorship; it means that you walk the walk and talk the talk because it is a mindset and integral to you as a person. It means that you provide a safe space: someone that others can trust to talk with about any concerns. Above all, a champion makes sure that people:

·        Have a voice
·        Have the space and confidence to speak
·        Know they don’t need permission to speak
·        Feel valued
·        In the room are listening
·        Are being heard.

Read on for a thought-provoking discussion about EDI in construction and the workplace.

Three Concentrated Areas of Diversity

Danny concentrates on three areas of diversity:
·        Women in Construction and Engineering
·        What diversity looks like
·        The different facts of diversity

In Danny’s experience, organisations and job seekers often think recruiters are motivated to present a candidate because of their personal demographics or characteristics.

“In my view, this is a misconception. In actuality, a candidate is recruited for their skills, experience, and knowledge and who happens to also have diverse characteristics. In other words, it’s the competency as well as the characteristics combined that make the diverse candidate who thinks differently to achieve the same goals.
Thinking differently about diversity is the only way we are going to generate innovation and promote creativity”

What Made You Realise That We Need Diversity in Construction?

“When it has always been men as the norm, it can sometimes be a leap to think, we need diversity here.”

When Danny started at NFB, he set up a women in construction networking group, and soon uncovered some harrowing stories from females in the wider industry. Some of the things women deal with in construction are harrowing, but they don’t often get the opportunity to speak up within their organisations. Within a networking group we create that opportunity, and only when we hear their stories, can we create the possibility for change.

When Does Talking Need to Stop and Action Need to Start?

There are too many group forums, working groups and subcommittees who are just talking. Danny shares the analogy of the bandwagon and ‘International Women’s Day’, which consists of

“Let’s do a social post, pull out the token female who works in the organisation again for her annual outing, and put a poster on the wall so we can say look how good we’re doing. We’re doing great things.”

The most important thing he noticed was there is so much talk and inaction. Now is the time for action.

The Construction Industry Is in Crisis

We are going through a massive skill shortage, and Brexit has also had an an impact – the number of engineers and others leaving the industry for care and parental responsibilities (both male and female) is astronomical. So encouraging the industry to review and revise how we look at and do things is crucial.
The amount of workers leaving the industry are more than those entering it. We need to recruit an additional 45,000 people into the industry every year for the next 5 years so we can grow. You wouldn’t be wrong to say that withouth changes to recruitment and retention construction is going to continue to be a challenging industry.

What can we do to create change?

We need to enable choice from as wide a talent pool as possible – that’s what recruitment agencies are trying to do, but too often get resistance to perfectly good candidates that don’t have the ‘look’, therefore they don’t ‘fit’.
Companies, with the help of organisations like NFB, can raise people’s voices, and provide mentoring, master classes, training programmes, networks and community groups that bring people together, to make people feel they are not on their own but are a part of something. This isn’t a concept just for women. It should be for everyone equally.

The whole point of inclusion is that you take everyone with you on the journey, so that you don’t have anyone feeling segregated. The more we do that, the more we are going to get the negative behaviours out of the industry.

Are You Concerned About Those Who Abuse ED&I as a TickBox Exercise?

Yes, there are those who have the conversation about ED&I and then don’t do anything with it, except to tick the box. They may want change but aren’t actually ready for the change.

I am often approached to discuss implementing an EDI programme for an organisation. However, when asked to explore what they want to get from it, they aren’t sure what that looks like for them. My advice is to know what you hope to achieve before trying to roll out an EDI programme, otherwise, you are setting yourself up for failure.

He says the answer should include “Because it is the right thing to do. If it doesn’t include this, then they might be missing the point.”

It should never be a tickbox exercise to ‘keep up with the Jones’, a PR stunt, a poster on the wall or talk about ratios. These reasons drive the wrong behaviours, set the organisation up for failure and allow them to say “Well, we tried.”

If an organisation doesn’t have its heart and soul in an EDI programme, they should pause. If it’s not the right thing to do, then don’t do it at all, because it will set the industry’s initiative back even further.

The Good Work Being Achieved

There are groups, councils and panels doing something about EDI from a ‘women in construction’ perspective, not just talking about it. Danny sits on several of these groups where some have the overriding rhetoric, ‘there are not enough women in the industry.’

This sends out the wrong message that the women in the industry aren’t enough, or that the work they do isn’t enough. We have great women in engineering and construction.

But the right message to send out to women is we need more great women who are great at their jobs.

The Top 100 Awards

That is why NFB launched the 100 Most Influential Women in Construction Awards. Women were nominated for their skill sets, great behaviours, accomplishments, and more. These women provide inspiration for others to follow them on their journeys.

The Top 100 Legacy Programme

The Legacy Programme offers mentoring, masterclasses, monthly peer groups and fully funded ILM training. Last year, NFB ran a masterclass on Finding Your Voice in the room, physically and face-to-face, and online. The point is that you do not need permission to speak up.
 
Mentoring and Promoting EDI in Construction

People often ask Danny why men should be talking about EDI in the industry? His answer is “For the same reason women should be talking about it, it is important for the workforce. It isn’t enough for a they/them attitude – look at it as ‘us’ – what are we doing in the industry? How do we fix it?”

NFB offers mentoring and training for organisations and individuals to challenge their current mindsets and learn strategies for success and inclusion in the workplace.

Summary

Our team, at Alexander Associates, agree that ED&I is the only way to strengthen the workplace and to ensure a successful tomorrow. With the world in flux, we need to go forward with the right strategies to safeguard against instability in the global market and inspire change, and we do this because it is the right thing to do.

Check out our blog series #ShesAnEngineer and contact us today to speak with our specialists in recruitment consultancy in construction and engineering. We will share our core values and how we implement ED&I in our services for you.

Name: Kate Bullen
Job Title: Asset Commissioning Manager at Wessex Water

When did you realise that a career in engineering was right for you? Was there a particular moment in your life?

I was given my first Mecano set by my parents when I was 4, along with a Lego train set – both of which I still have. I have been taking things apart my whole life to find out how they work (much to my parents dismay in my earlier years), and I’ve always been fascinated by the how’s and why’s of life.


What does an average day look like for you?

After spending 20 years as an Engineer I now manage a team of 20 Engineers, Technicians and Graduates. A lot of my life now is spent on my laptop and in meetings, but everyday I am involved in technical discussions with either a member of my team, or someone in the wider business


How did you get into this career? 

What qualifications did you get? I have A levels in Maths, Physics and Chemistry, and went on to Leeds University to study Environmental Chemistry. I became interested in water, and so chose to go to Birmingham University to complete a Masters in Water Resources. During that time I became fascinated by sewage treatment, and all the physical, chemical and biological processes involved. From there I was very lucky to be offered a position as a process engineer with Bechtel Water, who were working for United Utilities (or North West Water as they were at the time).


Did you face any challenges with your career decision as a woman engineer?

I faced a huge amount of discrimination as a female working on construction sites on sewage works, but never over my choice of careers.


What advice would you give to young girls considering a career in engineering?

I believe the most important point is to not consider your gender when deciding what career you would like to go into. If Engineering fascinates you, and it’s a career you would like to pursue, then just go for it. Everyone brings their own perspective to the job they do, and it’s only by having a broad range of people in a team that the team can be complete.


Do you have any standout memories/funny/interesting stories from your career as an engineer?

As a young graduate I managed to get a whole construction site to stop working as I walked across it – women were rarely seen on sites in the mid ‘90’s. I also remember the time that someone can into the site cabins and asked for the site manager as he needed an induction. I said that I could do it and he looked very unsure, so I passed him onto the site manager, who promptly bought him back into my office so I could do the induction. He did apologise! 

As a senior leader within SLR Consulting, Louise has enjoyed a successful career in a highly technical field and is now a champion of women in the workplace, in both early-stage career, and later in life when other challenges present themselves! 

 

Pamela is Key Account Portfolio Director for ISS Technical Services and oversees a broad range of services supplied mainly to the UK banking sector. After starting her career as an apprentice, she proved herself ‘on the tools’ working predominantly in a male-dominated environment as a hands-on engineer. 

 

Sharon is an accomplished engineering contractor, and is director of Ashron Consulting, a business she established after moving into engineering contracting. 

 

Inspiration and Early Years

Chelvi spent her childhood living in university quarters in Kuala Lumpur – her father was a Professor of Civil Engineering and her mother was a Maths Teacher. Her parents encouraged her that she could pursue any career path that she desired.

“When I was young, I wanted to be a doctor or a surgeon but this changed when I was ten during a family holiday to Europe. We were travelling around by train and while passing through Austria, I saw these beautiful bridges linking remote communities that would otherwise be completely isolated. I was awestruck by the nature and the human spirit of it, and this stuck with me.”

When the time came to go to university, Chelvi’s parents asked her what she wanted to do, and she chose to study engineering at the University of Southampton. 
“There were around 40 students on my course and just four of us were women. However, one was an exchange student who just came for a year, so for the remainder of the course we were just three!”

Working as a Woman in Engineering

After graduating at the top of her class with a first-class honours degree, Chelvi accepted a job with a British company in Singapore. Here she discovered that proving yourself is key to developing a career in the industry.

“I was brought up to be fearless, so I never go into a situation expecting a problem but that doesn’t mean problems didn’t happen! What I found in the East was, they look at you with a bit of trepidation initially, but once you’ve proven your technical abilities, then that’s it and your gender doesn’t matter, which is what all of us want. I’ve worked in the UK, Europe and South-East Asia, and I’ve had the least number of female colleagues when working in the UK., We have to question why that is.”

As a woman of colour in engineering, Chelvi has endured and overcome a number of different challenges. Some of which were harder to resolve and adapt to than others.
“Before I left Singapore, my mentor – a Senior Engineer at the company I worked for – warned me that I would encounter racism while working in the UK. This was unfortunately the case but I’m a resilient person and would usually try to laugh it off. For example, people at work would often comment that I’d be making curry for dinner that night, and I would just tell them that actually we very rarely eat curry in my house”
But there were other practical issues Chelvi faced.“A practical issue that I experienced early on – and one that I still see people talking about on LinkedIn – is that they never had boots in my size for when I was on site.

“I remember once we were clearing an old burial site and I had to wear two or three pairs of these welly-type things over my shoes because I couldn’t fit into any of the boots. As I tried to walk across the site, I sank into the mud and two men had to pull me out and carry me across. This was in 1989 and still today women find it hard to get appropriate site boots in their size.”

With more women being encouraged into engineering these days, many businesses are attempting to become more inclusive employers, with some setting a target of hiring 50% female employees.

“When I entered the profession, I would say women made up 10 - 12% of the workforce and today it’s only improved to 16%.”

Workplace Discrimination

“A huge barrier I faced was that I needed one year of on-site experience to become a Chartered Engineer. Every time I approached the training manager, he’d say he couldn’t find a suitable placement for me, but I would tell him that I don’t care where I go, just get me on site.

“When I left university, I was voted the person most likely to get chartered first, but then I was left behind everyone else. This is what led me down the structural engineering route, which is just as rigorous, but they allow you to accrue site experience rather than having to go and do a full year.

“This was perhaps the most direct gender discrimination I experienced. I’ve had a pretty good trajectory in my career, so after that stumbling block, the next big obstacle was becoming a parent, and then becoming a single parent.

“Many women have to take on the role of the main carer. I was finding that I wasn’t often getting the roles that I was qualified and experienced to do. Or, if I did get these roles, then it was very difficult to get the flexibility I needed as a parent.”

“In the UK, my son’s childcare cost me just as much as my mortgage, so I ended up moving back to Malaysia for three years where I could afford childcare. But when we returned to the UK, I was back in the same situation.

“When I asked for a raise, a superior at work told me that I was unlikely to get a promotion until my son was a teenager because they felt I wouldn’t be able to put the hours in. It wasn’t until 1996 that I found a company to work for that paid for my son’s nursery and allowed me to work from home one day a week, which meant I could pick him up from school.

When her son was ten years old, Chelvi made the decision to give contracting a try.
“At this point, I’d been struggling for several years. In fact, I’d gone overseas to work because it was easier than trying to find what I needed in the UK. Contracting through Alexander Associates was key to my career because you got me into the right roles without wasting any time. Also, this allowed me to work a four-day week during a time when that was highly unusual.”

The work-life balance that Chelvi found meant that she could develop professionally and have more time to spend with her son.

The Gender Pay Gap

The gender pay gap is still an issue in many industries, and Chelvi found accessing fair pay as a female Engineer wasn’t straightforward.

“When I was reading my Master’s, I was offered a job at good pay, but I didn’t take it because I felt morally obliged to go back to the company that had given me the scholarship, even though I wasn’t actually tied to them in any way. Here I was offered terrible pay but when I challenged it, it was just laughed off. The implication was that I should be grateful, so I accepted that.

“Later in my career, I was overlooked for promotions because I was a single parent, which meant my salary wasn’t increasing. This is why contracting was such a breath of fresh air for me. With contracting, you have your pay per hour and you get paid for every hour that you work. But on the other hand, if you don’t work, such as if you’re off sick, then you don’t get paid.

“When I made the decision to re-join a company in a permanent position in my 50s, I requested a figure but was turned down. I soon discovered what other people in the company were being paid and could see that I was very underpaid. That was a horrible feeling because I’m a very technically-competent Engineer and I have years of excellent experience, so I didn’t understand why I was being undervalued in this way.
“I decided to fight the company on this and some of my colleagues were willing to share their salaries and speak up for me. There was also a great HR person who mediated between me and upper management. This all started within four months of my joining the company and it took the whole year to get something, which even then was given in phases.

“People have said to me, do you think you’re being discriminated against because you’re a woman or because you’re a woman of colour or because you’re a parent? My answer is simply that I don’t know, it could have been anything.”

Giving Back to the Engineering World

As an established and highly-sought after Engineer, Chelvi enjoyed an exciting career and worked on a number of different projects before deciding she wanted to inspire others.

“I decided that the best way to give back was to work at a company on a permanent contract and to do mentoring and training. I re-joined the firm that was actually my first employer. I was 51 when I did this and within a few years, both of my parents, who were living in Sri Lanka, became quite frail. It was decided that they’d go and live with my brother in Singapore and I knew that I couldn’t just sit back and do nothing.
“I wanted to go to Singapore, but I wasn’t able to make this work with the company I was at. However, I was in touch with my old mentor and he invited me to work with him in Malaysia, which is just an hour’s flight from Singapore. So I resigned at the age of 54, even though I knew coming back and looking for a job in the UK would be difficult due to ageism.

“I knew that if I didn’t go then I’d regret it, so I went to Malaysia to start my new job in June and my dad passed away in August. I was able to see him every weekend during those months and to be present to support my mum afterwards.

Engineering Everyone

Chelvi is undoubtedly a trailblazer in her industry. Her story will be an inspiration for countless women today who are working in traditionally male-dominated industries, not just engineering.

“I’m sad to say that sometimes I find women don’t make it easy for other women. One of the things I always say is that we should all lift each other up, especially women. We all have our unconscious biases and it’s up to us to challenge them.”

These days, Chelvi is still determined to encourage more people, especially women, to consider a career in engineering. She set up Engineering Everyone to raise awareness of how integral Engineers are to society and to inspire people from all walks of life to enter the profession.

“I’ve got my objectives of educating the public and supporting Engineers, and I also think it’s really important to introduce the language of engineering to kids.
“I’ve taken lectures that I used to deliver at London South Bank University and simplified them to create a series of children’s books – The Language of Structures.
You can watch the full interview with Chelvi on YouTube or check out Engineering Everyone for more details on her mission! 

Kat Parsons is the Head of Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging UK and Ireland at ISS Facility Services, a position earned after a successful, and hard-won engineering career.

But perhaps, more specifically, from the experiences and lessons she collected while travelling this path. One not unfamiliar to many female engineers. In this blog, we learn more about what she has overcome to get to where she is today as a woman in engineering.
 

What Was the Spark that Lit Kat’s Engineering Bug?

When Kat began looking at her university study options, she tried to find something that sparked her academic interests while being connected to her desire to have an active career. 

“As I was having a flick through the prospectus, I saw an image of a consultant taking water samples. I was like, that’s me!”

She enrolled at Lancaster University to study Environmental Science: a nice mix of all her interests. 

During her studies, Kat did a couple of work placements to gain some experience. She used this time to refine the vision she held for her career, or as she put it, apply a “temperature check”. On a 6-week placement with an Environmental Consultancy, Kat thought, “I really see myself here – hard hats, overalls on. This is what I want to do.”
 

The Work Begins

After graduating, much of Kat’s work focussed on flood risk. But when her role started to touch on work with contaminated land, she got excited. At this point, Kat joined a bigger firm and moved into Project Management in land contamination. "I was in the field, five days a week. I realised that this was the work I really enjoyed, that ‘logistical, last minute, quick we need someone’ work.” 

What became apparent was that she was more valuable in the office, working on the backend of site management, so she embarked on a route that would see her attempt to ascend the company ladder, one that she had to work hard to climb!
 

Challenges of the Climb

Kat managed to move from her graduate status to a more senior position quickly, citing her logistics and project management skills as having supported her progression.
Over the course of 10 years, Kat reached what she describes as a plateau, trapped in middle management with no clear sign that she would get to where she wanted to despite demonstrating her worth over and over. 
 

Goals and Visible Role Models?

When considering goals and role models, Kat acknowledges that “It was quite tricky. Female engineers already in the business were very technical, but I was more of an all-rounder. It almost felt like my skill set was holding me back because I wasn’t ticking the technical box. Men with fewer skills would always get promoted ahead of me, which was quite frustrating.”
 

Coping With Gender Inequality

Kat admits that she opted to get tough to match the nature of the male-dominated sector, reflecting that she went to great lengths to demonstrate her capabilities above and beyond what was expected of others. Kat realised she would need to move on to find the promotion she deserved. 
 

Fighting for Equal Pay

When we raised the topic of equal pay, Kat faced this issue a lot.“Whispers of what people were being paid versus what I was being paid. That was always pretty tough.”
To ensure she’s being equally paid for her skillset, it’s one of the first things she looks into—an unfortunate reality for women in engineering and a product of being a victim of pay inequality.  

Kat eventually moved and embarked on a different career path, feeling she got pushed to make the decision by the limitations of her Engineering career. “I reflected on my career and realised I wasn’t happy. I was very stressed, and my work-life balance was horrendous, so I decided to change industry completely and move into Facilities Management.”
 

Appealing Factors

Kat entered Facilities Management in a Health and Safety role. She knew nothing about the industry but found space she enjoyed. 

As part of this new role, Kat worked on some health-focused projects, including her acclaimed project on Menopause. “That got picked up and I was asked to be the Head of Diversity and Equality for the UK and Ireland. A position I originally said no to! I thought I couldn’t do that. This new role required empathy that I thought I didn’t have. With some self-reflection, I realised I had bucketloads of empathy. I knew I could make a real difference.” 
 

Dismantling an Ingrained Culture 

Discussing that much needs to be done to change how companies support their people, Kat notes, “It’s very much cultural. Working on construction sites, it was either men swearing their heads off or refusing to swear in front of me. Either way, I would do something to fit in.

It was difficult at the time, but I think it’s quite a skill to adapt how you talk to a group of people. Going onto a site, my whole demeanour would change. In the first few minutes, I knew I needed to say something to prove I wasn’t a feeble woman. Something to prove I deserved to be there.”
 

Has it Changed?

“I always remember the toilets being horrendous. A surveyor I talked to last week said she doesn't drink from when she gets up to the end of her shift so that she doesn’t have to use the facilities. Essentially, women’s basic needs are still not being met."

On the flip side of that, a company Kat worked for implemented a Menopause policy, which is new and fantastic for the business and the women who come after her. Women in senior positions leave the industry because they’re not getting the support they need to deal with the anxiety, stress, and depression associated with fluctuating hormones.

Honest Reflection

So, what does Kat think about the industry as a whole?

“Looking back on my career in Construction and Engineering, I remember the good bits. I absolutely loved it! I got to see parts of the country I never would’ve seen. I met thousands and thousands of people. I wouldn’t change it. Yes, it was hard, but I think that’s made me who I am today.”
 
Women are a force of nature in the engineering world, and if you want to find more opportunities here then speaking to the teamat Alexander Associates could be the best thing that you do for your career.